During their short time of existence, more viable/factual information was created/developed in the HM.org forums than in any other Internet forum/web site, and for that matter any instructional program, commercial or otherwise.

Unfortunately when it comes to how the body swings or should I say what constitutes optimal swing mechanics and more importantly how to develop them, ignorance, hearsay, fiction, fabrication, ego, marketing and sales are the norm as evidenced by what I read on other baseball forums that attempt to provide hitting instruction.

As time permits, I will be making available the content of those forums (read-only) in hopes that by doing so, will help mitigate in some small way the entrenched ignorance that typifies hitting instruction and hitting mechanics in general.

Please stay tuned.

Paul Nyman

Quizz: How much do you really know about swinging a bat???

Enjoy!!

The "Big Three" plus 1

I feel it's very important to highlight and emphasize that based on my experience working with players, analyzing hundreds of players of all ages and proficiency levels, thousands of hours slow motion video and computer analysis, that there are three fundamental problems that prevent players from ever achieving or coming close to their maximum swing (and by association) and hitting potential.

Those three are:

Posture, ineffective and/or improper set up and use of the body.

Hand dominance, swinging the bat with the hands versus the body

Improper, and effective, nonexistent hip rotation.

The above three are primarily player deficiencies or if you will bad swing habits.

How you order these three is many times arbitrary, they all are equally important. I've placed them in the order that I feel they need to be addressed with respect to the instructional and training process.

There is a fourth (the "plus 1”) which is a contributor and more times than not a cause of much of the above and that is .....

And I'm sure some here who have endured my rantings regarding form versus function, inductive versus deductive reasoning, qualitative versus quantitative analysis, etc. etc. are interested in other "diatribe" on swing mechanics. Which is to say that I've been at this long enough (maybe too long) and have tried to look at how the body swings from as many different angles as I possibly can and feel that I at a point where much of this "stuff" is starting to make sense (which may be a very dangerous place to be).

One thing I am certain of, is there will continue to be (in my lifetime) confusion and controversy regarding what constitutes "good" swing mechanics and how to instruct what some would call good swing mechanics (hitting mechanics?). And I do understand (and accept?) this because I have been there (immersed in the forest) and done that (not seeing the forest for the trees).

My problem (not seeing the forest because the trees are/were getting in the way) is looking at the swing process from a "symptoms" driven perspective. I

I was dealing more with the "form" of the swing as opposed to its function. And I really didn't understand this until recently, i.e. until I decided to do the SETPRO Instructor Swing Training Program CD. Because in order for the CD to be useful (what I considered useful) I needed to develop a better definition (understanding) of what a perfect swing is.

Not that long ago I was trying to do the very same thing in the SETPRO customer and private forums. I was attempting to define a high-level swing in terms of the players body/movements. I was attempting to develop "swing absolutes" based on how the player held the bat, player posture, player bat lag, player bat drag etc. And it was not until I took on the CD project that I understood that I was in reality treating symptoms, of what prevented a perfect/high-level swing as opposed to what the fundamental objectives of a perfect swing are.

And in some respect I was as blind as I accuse many of you being in terms of not being able to see the forest for the trees.

In my case, the forest is motor learning. It is understanding that all voluntary movement is goal driven. Something I have said (preached) over and over again but was not really applying to creating a working definition of the perfect swing.

As I've often said it is impossible to get inside another person's nervous system, muscles, as you attempt to instruct the player as to how you think that player should move/swing the bat.

This is also why words and their use has such importance and significance to me. It's the reason why I frequently post definitions, because words are nothing more than symbols, subject to interpretation of the person who is reading them. And most the time no two people have the same interpretation of these "symbols".

It is my opinion that most instruction attempts no develop instructional methods based upon "effect" as opposed to cause. It's an attempt to teach form without the player (or the instructor?) Really understanding the function. It's the use of inductive reasoning versus deductive logic.

As critical as I am of others who claim they understanding of the swing process, I sincerely believe that almost every coach and or instructor is trying to do the best job he or she possibly can. I will even go so far as to say that most of those who I view more as "salesman", believe in the product that they are selling (again I emphasize the word "most").

I've presented the following information before, but some may have not viewed it. And for those who have viewed it before, I suggest you review it again. I think it has great significance (again, my opinion). I also believe it's a top-level overview of what constitutes a high-level swing (perfect swing?)

Enjoy!!

In search of the perfect swing... The "Holy Grail"...

I absolutely deplore those instructors/experts who resort to the word "style" as a "catchall" for their inability to either identify and/or explain their "discoveries".

Or they resort to "individual differences" such as "double-jointed necks".

Or they leave it as an "exercise for the reader" to figure out what how to apply what they're allegedly explaining to them how to apply....

Counter rotation "revisited"

Force, Torque, Momentum and Power, Basic physics of the swing.

Part of the "mystery" surrounding swing mechanics is due for/no understanding of basic physical principles/properties such as force, mass, torque, momentum, and power.

These principles/properties are important because they help quantify our interaction with the physical world around us.

In terms of understanding how the body acquires and produces movement, motor learning researchers have look to other scientific disciplines such as physics and engineering.

The new theories of motor control that were first proposed in the 1960's and 1970's, and that form the focus for contemporary movement science research and literature review today. (Bernstein, 1967; Gibson, 1966; Kelso, 1984; Schmidt, 1975). Two current theories of motor control, the motor program theory and the dynamical systems theory, have both integrated concepts from the ecological theory of motor control into their constructs. Consequently, a new clinical intervention approach has evolved that advocates an "ecological model" of motor control. This new approach is called a task-oriented approach (Shumway-Cook & Woolacott, 2001).

A basic premise of ecological motor control it is that movement (how we learn to use our body) is determined by our interaction (how we deal with the constraints imposed upon us) with our environment. A large part of this interaction is dealing with the “physics” of ourselves and our environment.

Dealing with our environment is dealing with the following variables;

The gravitational field of the Earth.

Space (length, width height)

Time

Mass.

Newton's three laws form the starting point for basically all of classical mechanics. Classical mechanics being be understanding and application of how “macroscopic” object move in space and time. Macroscopic meaning that we are dealing with objects that we can see, touch, feel (as opposed to a comic and subatomic physics).

Newton's three laws simplified:

Here are Sir Isaac Newton's three laws of motion.

Law 1 - An object moving in a straight line will continue moving in a straight line, unless acted on by an outside force. Also, an object at rest will stay at rest. The word for this is inertia.

Law 2 - Force will cause a change in the motion of an object. The change in motion depends on the amount of force and the mass of the object. There is a formula for this F=ma (force equals mass times acceleration).

Law 3 - For each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Force

Most of us have an intuitive understanding of what force is. We know the heavy of the object the more effort it takes to move it. Which is a pretty good definition of “force”. Technically force is defined by Sir Isaac Newton's second law, Force= Mass x Acceleration (F=MA). Force is something that causes an object to move, and more specifically to accelerate (assuming there's no friction the object will continue to accelerate forever (until it approaches the speed of light that is)).

Muscles great force by a combination of electrical and chemical actions. These actions typically produce muscle contractions i.e. shortening of the muscle.

Units of force are typically pounds. As in example how much we way is typically specified in pounds (how much we way is the result of the Earth's gravitational attraction i.e. the acceleration of gravity acting upon our mass).

Which brings up another word/concept that people confuse, mass.

Mass

Mass is the property of an object that resists acceleration in a straight-line. How massive of an object is determined using Newton's second law Mass = Force/Acceleration.

Our weight is actually the measure of the Earth's gravitational attraction and is defined as Weight = Mass X Gravitational Attraction. Gravitational attraction is the property that the planet Earth exerts on objects which exhibit mass.

Inertia

Inertia is “first cousin” to mass. Inertia is the property of mass subjected to a rotational force and/or motion. Inertia en masse are not the same thing. Mass is a “prerequisite” for inertia, i.e. you cannot have inertia unless you have mass. But in her sure is the property of mass in a rotational “environment”.

Torque

If inertia is first cousin to mass, then torque is first cousin to force.
Torque is the most important concept to understand with respect to how the body swings the bat. The word torque is also the "scientific word" causing the most confusion with respect to understanding how the body swings the bat.

Definition of torque: The torque on an object about some pivot point is due to the action of a force on the object.

Another way of defining torque is "force acting through a distance".

One of the most common applications of torque is force acting on a lever. That force is causing rotation around a fixed point i.e. the fulcrum of the lever. And the torque being created on one side of the fulcrum is being resisted by the torque created by the weight on the other side of the fulcrum (object you are trying to move with the lever).

In order for there to be meaningful torque, three things are required; force, distance, and a pivot point. The amount of torque produced is directly proportional to the force in the distance that that force acts through (length of the lever arm).

Centripetal Force

Centripetal force is a “poor cousin” to the concepts of inertia and torque. Centripetal force is poorly understood by most baseball people. And in fact most people refer to centripetal force as centrifugal force. And to the physicist there is no such thing as centrifugal force i.e. centrifugal force is an imaginary force “balancing” centripetal force.

The reason I call centripetal force a “poor cousin” is because it is a somewhat special form of force. Special and that it is “more passive” then your “ordinary force”. Centripetal force RESULTS whenever you try to constrain an object that wants to move in a straight-line to moving in curved line. And unlike “regular forces” which create energy by moving an object through a distance, centripetal force does not create energy any more energy than the object possessed prior to the centripetal force changing the direction of the object. This may sound somewhat confusing but simply stated centripetal force does nothing more than change the direction of an object that is already moving. And centripetal force does not affect the energy or power that that object had prior to centripetal force changing its direction. This is what makes centripetal force somewhat special i.e. it is purely reactionary (passive force if you will).

Centripetal force does have great influence on the swinging a bat IF the player can change the direction of the mass of the bat. The same principle behind the cracking of a weapon i.e. changing the direction of the mass of the whip (straight-line to rotation, rotation being created by the loop in the whip).

Everything with respect to our perception of reality versus someone else's perception of reality.

Nothing if your perception of hitting reality is what you might "think" are "good mechanics" (which in reality is your belief system shaped by your hitting philosophy, hitting religion, and possibly hitting science).

For those who wish to partake of the more esoteric side of www.hitting-mechanics.org forum discussions you might want to check out:

Thoughts on Hip Rotation

Albert: So I think there are cycles in the history of science: one goes through eras characterized by more conceptually revolutionary sorts of developments, where people find it crucial to scientific progress to surrender themselves wholly to certain kinds of philosophical questions and debates where questions of rhetoric become more important. And there are other eras where that represents a more decadent or counterproductive or less valorized tendency.

Horgan: The way I distinguish between science and philosophy is that science addresses questions that can be answered eventually. Somehow, you get consensus. Philosophy addresses all the other questions that can't be answered.

"THE CURIOUS CASE OF SIDD FINCH"

by George Plimpton
Sports Illustrated
April 1, 1985

"THE CURIOUS CASE OF SIDD FINCH"

Enjoy...!!

Anyways a couple of updates.

SETPRO Instructor's Swing Training Program.

I am happy to say (also sad in some respects) that there was more interest than I thought in the SETPRO instructor swing training program, and there are no more available (assuming everyone who has e-mailed me follows up).

If you are still interested, e-mail swinginstructor@setpro.com and I will put you on a list (first-come first-served) just in case someone who has previously committed fails to follow-up on that commitment. I should know within the next week or so if there are any available due to lack of follow-up by those with previously committed/said they were interested.

On the subject of the CD, they will ship Monday and Tuesday of next week to those who have sent their checks in. As I said three CDs are now one (again marketing as in three sounds better than one, succumbs to practicality, information is now much easier to access because it's on a single CD).

I will also e-mail those who are receiving CD's with specific information on obtaining your CD authorization code. Because this is such a limited edition and for security reasons the CD will be "locked" to a specific computer. Those who have purchased the CD will receive information as to how to obtain the "unlock code" prior to your receiving the CD so that you may immediately use the CD upon its receipt without having to e-mail and wait for your hardware authorization code.

What happened to the H-M forums?

Basically didn't see the interest in the H-M forums that I saw early on (too much of what was going on depended on my initiating activity) so is easier for me to go to this format. And with everything that's going on with product development, joint ventures, CD's etc. my time demands right now are at a premium. And the moderators have other boards/web sites they are supporting, which I encourage, but that's also a "2-edged sword" in that it places more burden on me to initiate topics of discussion, responses etc.. It's can also extremely difficult for others to contribute to web site such as this one (specific swing training and development information) especially with someone as picky as myself as to what information is "postable". I've been at this long enough to see this coming and hence the reason for my setting up the main page here as a "BLOG". I did this when I reopened the H-M forum early last month. As time permits I will post what I consider the most informative posts from the H-M forums archives here with additional commentary.

Epstein, Mankin, Nyman To Form UNIFIED HITTING MECHANICS COMMITTEE.

I'm also very happy to announce that Mike Epstein, Jack Mankin and myself have agreed to the formation of a "UNIFIED HITTING MECHANICS COMMITTEE". This committee will establish guidelines for swing and hitting mechanics instruction and research.

According to Mike Epstein and I quote:

"It's about time we all put our egos and salesmanship aside and do something that has needed to be done for years and that's to do what's best for parents, coaches and the players. Even though I'm the only one amongst us who has been on the "firing line", the only one to have the playing experience of nine-year Major League slugger, the only one to have long-standing relationship with my mentor, Ted Williams, this, along with my years of study and research, my conversations with some of the best hitting minds in the game, and my over twenty years instructing players to help them hit their potentials. As well as my, my unique, unrivaled teaching system, any hitter can learn the time-tested rotational mechanics of Ted and the game’s most productive hitters from me and my certified staff in an unequalled seven days! In spite of all this I think it's a real privilege that I can participate with Paul and Jack, who, even though they never really were baseball players, should be able to contribute something to this committee."

Jack Mankin had this to say:

"I was the first person ever to discover rotational mechanics, with my university endorsed study which covered nine years and literally thousands of hours. The first two years I spent charting the swings of 185 professional players. I would video tape games shown on television and replay the swings back in frame by frame action. By placing a piece of clear plastic over the screen I was able to trace the movement of each part of the body and the bats reaction for each video frame of the swing. From the time the swing was initiated to contact required from 4 to 6 frames depending on the mechanics of the batter. And even though I never swung a bat other than to demonstrate my now famous "hands to the ball linear technique" that all hitters have been so wrongly taught all these years, and I even still have the letter from Harvey and his physics department at a leading university sent me which totally validates my research and findings. And I'm sure that all my scientific achievements were shining examples and responsible for Mike and Paul choosing to follow the example I set and the efforts of my University acknowledged scientific hitting research in the formation of this scientificly scientific committee.

Paul Nyman said:

It really is a humbling experience to be in the presence of two of the greatest when it comes to understanding how the body swings the bat. It is so humbling and I feel so blessed that Mike and Jack, two such great rotational swing mechanics pioneers allow me to be associated with them and their efforts. I just hope I can contribute a fraction of what these great men have achieved in their pursuit of Truth, Justice and the American way with respect to the swinging of a bat. As I said I'm so humbled,....., I, I, just am so humbled,... and blessed to be chosen and I will do everything I can even though I possess nowhere near the experience and knowledge of hitting that Mike possesses or the scientific method and rigor that Jack has applied to his university endorsed research. I am so happy and so humbled and so blessed they have included me on this committee. (April fools)

Came across this that some may find of interest, especially those who are debating how long it takes to swing a bat.....

2000, 03:23 PM #1 Paul Nyman Posts: 443 Something interesting is a "cookin"

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It's funny and also absolutely wonderous how the mind works.

Sometimes it's like putting a puzzle together that when the last piece is in place, unlocks a door/gate to a whole new perspective.

Sometimes those pieces are in a pot (like a pot of stew on the stove), just simmering until everything is ready to "eat" (reached the magic moment).

Below is a picture from an article I found in California on my last trip.

My first morning there I purchased "The San Francisco Chronicle, Monday february 28th, 2000". That's where this picture came from.

Also an interesting article to go along with it.

Hind sight tells me it is an important piece to the "swing puzzle" that I(what seperates the swing of a major leaguer from that of a little leaguer/lower level player). Another very important part was presented to me by Alan on his trip here to the training center.

Turns out these two pieces did not "click" (although the pot was stewing) until Alan called me this morning.

Tim Olsons son's clips are another piece, or should I say "ingredient in the stew"

Here's a link to the entire picture/posting:

Something interesting is a "cookin"

Enjoy!

Enjoy!!

03-27-2001, 12:14 PM #4 Major Dan

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Had a very interesting exchange with Mike Epstein on his site.
In a thread about 'keeping hands inside the ball', a writer asked what that meant. I responded with an explanation that boiled down to keeping the hands in and shoulders turning until (or almost until) contact.

Mike Esptein agreed but added some more 'advanced' points.
He said the arms should extend completely by pulling the knob of the bat to the ball with the bat barrel fully trailing. That any angular displacement of the bat barrel (my words) would result in less bat speed. At full arm extension, the wrists snap the barrel out to the ball resulting in tremendous bat speed.

I was shocked and suggested he was advocating a two-piece swing, with completely linear upper body mechanics, disconnected from the kinetic chain. I threw some Jack Mankin angular momentum at him along the way.

Within an hour, both his post and mine were gone!!!
(unfortunately I don't have a copy of what was written).

However, responses on the main branch remained with comments about Mike's post: kac's reply -

"I was watching Mike Piazza giving hitting tips on TV one day and he said one of the main things he thinks about is getting his hands inside the ball. he said to do this, you have to drive your back elbow into your rib cage area and rotate with it staying to your side."

I replied, agreed with kac and questioned why Mike's and my posts had been deleted.

Mike Epstein's reply

"Hi Major Dan –

>I had my post deleted because I posted information which I thought might be "confusing." My apologies to you and others.

>My next article in Collegiate Baseball News addresses this, what I call the “third” core mechanical movement in the swing. So, I’ll be brief here.

>The kinetic link works in conjunction with the hands staying inside the ball, which means the hands and bat remain close to the body during upper body rotation. For this to occur, the rear elbow MUST tuck in on the approach. The hand path stays circular until the hips begin to decelerate and the torso has received its maximum momentum transfer. >Extension occurs as the swing nears the appropriate contact zone, which is dependent on pitch location.

>The hands and bat travel in a circular movement as they follow the rotating upper body, with the barrel dropping below the hands on the approach to contact. The bat head will always be below the hands at contact—unless the player swings at a pitch above his letters—at which point the barrel of the bat could be higher than his hands as he attempts to get on the plane of the pitch.

>The “key” is to not let either arm “pre-extend” in the approach. "

Seems to me, Mike spent some time at Batspeed and here, doing some quick research. He now has a third core mechanical principle.
On one hand, its nice to see he is learning. On the other hand, this is unabashed revisionism and plagarism of the highest order.
I can't wait to read his article. It will probably spare Jack Mankin the trouble of having to publish his own ideas.

One "cue" that I hear quite often is the need for a hitter to brace up or stiffen up the front leg to create/help rotation of the hips. The reasoning behind this cue being rotation of the hips it is a function of stiffening up a racing up of the front side (front leg). And or that converting the stride into rotation requires bracing up/stiffening of the front leg. That the bracing up of the leg is what causes hip rotation.

The same thing can be said for squishing the bug and or “The L”. For those who are not familiar with the concept of: “The L”, it is a description of the shape of the back leg as the hips hour rotating and/or have been rotated (goes hand-in-hand with squishing the bug i.e. rotation of the back foot such that it appears that the ball the foot is squishing a bug and the heel is coming up). The “alleged” final result of the action of squishing the bug with the back foot is hip rotation which also creates the shape of “the L” in the back leg.

Again we are back to symptoms versus cues, form versus function.

The symptom here being squishing the bug and "L" is what causes hip rotation when in reality (the cause) hip rotation is primarily produced by muscular actions in the pelvic-buttocks area. That the muscles that are responsible for abducting and adducting around the hip joints creates forces around the hip joints. The effect of these forces is what you see as squishing the bug and creating “the L”. In other words these movements of the foot and leg are in support of the actions of the muscles in the pelvic area give the appearance/impression of bracing up on the front side and squishing the bug and creating "the L" on the backside.

One has to question the value of these “cues”. They are cues that are based on visual “perception”. The question is how effectively do these cues contribute the actual muscular movements and muscle activation's that are observed in high-level players.

And like most cues, their existence is because I better than nothing as opposed to their teaching instructional effectiveness. Their main reason for existence is because they satisfy the coaches need for visual representation of that portion of the swing process.

The bad news is they will ship Monday.

The good news is everything has been consolidated onto one CD.

Some Explanation.

As those of you know who purchase the SETPRO Instructor Swing Training Program, it was originally intended to be sold "across-the-board" to the public. And as I've explained previously because of a joint venture agreement with another organization that is in the baseball and softball instruction business, it was agreed that only a limited number of CD's would be made available. And primarily to those SETPRO had made commitments to regarding the purchase of the CD's.

Originally ("mass market sales") the SETPRO Instructor's Swing Training Program was divided up into three sections (three CDs). Each CD being a stand-alone covering a specific aspect of swing development. The rationale/logic being that there were certain parts of the program might not be of interest to to everyone (not everyone necessarily wants as much information as what I think is required to become a swinginstructor).

As example CD #1 discusses and shows how the body and its functioning effects the swing (muscles, connective tissues, physics, biomechanics etc.)

CD #2 is the actual swing training program itself i.e. the nuts and bolts of the instruction.

And CD #3 covers the seven deadly sins of the swing process and how to fix them.

Hopefully you can see how each one of these might have a different audience, and from a marketing-sales standpoint (also user friendliness perspective) it made sense to divide it up into three sections/categories.

Because we are only now producing a "limited edition", and also because a single CD can hold all of the information, it was decided to combine all three CDs into one CD.

The advantage of this is for those who have looked at the sample, you now have a table of contents that covers the materials of three CDs on a single CD. Not only does this create less problems for us in terms of logistics, but it creates a much better search and find what you're looking for capability.

The bad news was it took an extra couple of weeks to get this done.

Again thank you for your support in patience.

Paul Nyman

If you are reading this you may already know that be forums are no longer available. At some point in time I may reactivate them again but for now, they will remain inactive.

I would hope some of you miss the forums, I know I will.

But it's also been my observation that other than my postings, not that much activity happens if don't make it happen. It is usually my posting that create postings.

And it takes a lot of my time to monitor and maintain.

Also this is now a busy time of year on the baseball/softball fields for many people. So this will allow the moderators (who I thank very much for their efforts) to pursue other activities.

I will also continue to post player clips and to provide my thoughts and opinions regarding the players mechanics.

I will also create an e-mail link for for those who wish to submit questions and or player clips.

I thank all of you who supported and participated in the forums.

This is something (BLOG) I've been want to try for a while and as I said much of the form content was me getting my opinions so this won't be that much different but easier to maintain and manage.

This page will undergo a "resetting" of the "BLOG" in the next day or so to get everything on track.

As usual, please stay tuned.

Paul Nyman